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Re: breckenridge
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:18 PMDecriminalization is a good start, but it's just a start. It's going to take a long time for people to figure out that marijuana is no worse than alcohol. Fact is, it probably causes fewer problems overall. And this is from somebody who has never used either. -
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Re: breckenridge
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 6:32 PM
>> Decriminalization is a good start, but it's just a start. It's going to take a long time for people to figure out that marijuana is no worse than alcohol. <<
don't hold your breath. while sane people are trying to decriminalize pot, the morons are trying to criminalize tobacco and slap a tax on soda. all with the "best" of intentions of course. -
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Re: breckenridge
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 10:35 PMive always thought of decriminalization as coming with the heavy price of taxes. it'd still bring prices down below where they are in most cities around the country. -
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Re: breckenridge
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 11:29 PM
but what's the likelihood of decriminalizing one law on the books while essentially pushing to criminalize and regulate three others (fats, sodas and tobacco)? face reality. once a bureaucracy reaches critical mass behind a "public bad" it's impossible to dislodge it. no matter how negative the consequences (e.g. the CCPOA in CA or the consequences of the drug war on inner-cities and Central/North/South America). and the fact that elected officials can run on the perception that we're sliding into decadence by ceding yet another bastion of decency. and the shivering idiots and gray hairs fall for it every time. -
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Re: breckenridge
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 11:37 AMHey, now. Easy on the gray hairs. I have one or two of them myself.
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Re: breckenridge
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 6:24 PMIf it's illegal at the state level the municipal ordinance will be meaningless. -
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Re: breckenridge
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 10:38 PMdepends on how the county and local authorities deal with it. the feds under bush went haywire in california and now under obama they're cooling their heels a bit.
you can only enforce laws if those enforcing them feel enough of a duty to do so. -
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Re: breckenridge
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 11:32 PM>> you can only enforce laws if those enforcing them feel enough of a duty to do so. <<
unless enough of those enforcing the laws feel that their salaries, pensions and benefits are going to be lost if the reason for their existence is sacrificed for the "greater good." then they'll enforce those laws to the bitter end. and they'll fight tooth and nail to keep those laws on the books. -
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Re: breckenridge
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 11:39 AM"unless enough of those enforcing the laws feel that their salaries, pensions and benefits are going to be lost if the reason for their existence is sacrificed for the "greater good." then they'll enforce those laws to the bitter end. and they'll fight tooth and nail to keep those laws on the books."
There ya go. Government employees need to justify their existence somehow. And if it means putting people in jail that didn't hurt anyone, so be it.
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Re: breckenridge
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 8:16 AM*******************depends on how the county and local authorities deal with it. ***********
your words seem as if you are ignoring the state. When the state laws is that XYZ is criminal no local law or ordinance can overcome it. And because the local municipal and counties rely on State money the State can force them to enforce state law. The police oath is to the state above the town. In fact very few municipal laws are criminal in nature. The criminal code f your state, California, is a state wide body of laws of general application that no one in the state can ignore - - unless the Federal law has granted them some kind of carve out as it does for diplomats etc.
So If Culver City makes it lawful to murder the people ahead of you at the Starbucks if you happen to be late getting the kids to soccer practice - you are still going to face the death penalty when you act on that local ordinance.
*************the feds under bush went haywire in california and now under obama they're cooling their heels a bit.*************
Under Bush the Justice Department did a lot of really weird and I think excessive things.
*********you can only enforce laws if those enforcing them feel enough of a duty to do so.**************
Not so. If at the state level the will is to enforce the laws of the state the police risk being removed and replace for failure to conform to state law. On a small enough scale they will get away with it but, once it becomes an issue in the state capitol you can be sure that the music will stop in Breckenridge.
What this local ordinance amounts to is a populist message to the State and eventually the Fed that p[eople are fed up with srupid moralistic laws at the criminal level and want change.
That's the real value it has. If I lived in that town I'd not be possessing pot. The town law can not protect you from the laws of general application from the state level. All the local law does is give you something to shout out in protest for the newspapers to print as they carry you off to jail.
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Re: breckenridge
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 11:42 AMCorrectomundo, Schrodinger. If enough localities send the same message, it will sink through to the state level. After all, the people in these municipalities DO have the right to vote, and the surest way to a politicians heart is to make him nervous at re-election time. -
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Re: breckenridge
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 1:13 PManyone who expects marijuana to become legalized overnight is taking crazy pills. it's a slow and steady race. 10 years ago, how many states or localities legalized various amounts of marijuana? less than 10. mpp has done a great job focusing state-by-state instead of going after legalization on the federal level. it's easier to mobilize 100 people than it is to mobilize 100,000.
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Re: breckenridge
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 1:11 PMi'm not ignoring the state. how likely is it that state authorities will come into breckenridge to arrest anyone possessing less than an ounce? it would be a waste of resources. didn't obama just issue an executive order or something like that telling federal authorities to stop the raids on dispensaries? if the feds aren't doing it, why should the state?
<If I lived in that town I'd not be possessing pot.>
i think the point is that plenty of people DO possess pot and don't want to be hassled if they possess less than an ounce. -
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Re: breckenridge
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 4:49 PM**********i'm not ignoring the state. how likely is it that state authorities will come into breckenridge to arrest anyone possessing less than an ounce?***********
Well Gerbil the local police are state agents.
They took an oath to defend the constitution and enforce the laws of the state.
The state contributes substantially to their salary too.
As I mentioned: If the people stay under the radar they may be OK so long as: (a) it stays low profile, (b) no local police officer gets all froggy about the municipality telling them lay off, and (c) the county sheriff's don't start to take up the slack.
It's political theater. Good theater mind you, and one that others ought to get in on but I would not advise people that they are unexposed by possession on the thesis that the town says it's OK.
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Re: breckenridge
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 11:28 AMthe local police usually also live in the municipality they serve. how likely is it that they will make it a priority to arrest the people they live around after they voted overwhelmingly in favor of a specific policy? true, some people are jackasses and may do it but i think the majority probably wouldn't.
<(a) it stays low profile>
the majority of possession and smoking does occur under the radar. i bet there's more people stoned around you than you think. depends where you are though.
<(b) no local police....>
my guess is that the municipality would be bugging them to get more active.
<(c)county sheriff...>
he could be a problem. know any "fixers"? -
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Re: breckenridge
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 1:21 PMThe only "fix" I can think of is not to get caught.
I only know one slam dunk way to achieve that and it's the method I currently employ:
I let the state bully me into non use and non possession.
It sucks but, If you get busted in NJ or FL you stand an almost 99% chance of losing your law license forever.
That's a more than a hundred grand and god knows how many years and endless hours of agony down the drain.
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